MLBRT 9/17: Pennants & epic collapses



New questions.. new answers… for a new Major League Baseball Round table… right here and now…

1) With all the turmoil surrounding Matt Harvey… the fact he said, with some gusto, that he wanted the ball every 5th day and to pitch in October and then backed off that when his agent and his doctor said there were an innings limit set at 180 due to his TJ surgery… if the Mets offered him in a trade would you take him? With no reservations… about how other players in the clubhouse would think about him or whether he might “spit the bit” when crunch time approached?

(Editor’s note… seems I caused a tad of confusion when I used the word trade in this question… I meant trade in the off-season and not in the present ongoing post-trading deadline season… my apologies for the confusion…)

Matt Harvey; Scott Boras (top right), and Mets general manager Sandy Alderson
Matt Harvey; Scott Boras (top right), and Mets general manager Sandy Alderson



Archie: A couple of things here first, I am not clear on the trade discussion in that, it is after the trade deadline and IF I were looking for pitching to bolster a post-season roster what would make me think he is NOT damaged goods IF the Mets themselves did not want to keep him for the same reason?

So, I guess I WOULD have reservations IF the Mets put him on the trade block.

The remainder of the question is kind of obscure as well. I do see where his team mates might think less of him should he phone the rest of the season in and then TANK it during the post-season. But IF he were to sit down and then perform really well in the post-season I don’t think his team mates would care at all. But you let him sit too long for the remainder and NOT be sharp during the post-season and then, yeah, I can see him maybe catching a few disgruntled
comments from team mates.

Dan: Yes, I would take him.I like his ambition, but, he does have to think about the future.harveytwitter-1024x512

His mind-set is team-oriented and he wants to do whatever he can to help the team win and get to the World Series. I think, if he feels he’s ready to pitch, and can pitch, let him pitch what he chooses.

My answer is yes, I would take him in a trade no questions asked. I think he’s a good enough pitcher in which, as a Brewers’ fan I look at the Brewers’ team in regards to these questions, I would plug him at the middle of the rotation for, since the season is over, next season.



Earl: Earl be chillin’ in Florida…

earl chill



Joe: Simple answer here is… lots of miscommunications and one big screwup on all parties parts.

Harvey asked all year to be given the ball whenever… he even told Mets’ officials when they declared he would have certian innings limitations in palce by the Mets going nto a 6-man-rotation… he said he didn’t like it and could pitch in a 5-man-rotation…sandy1

Right then and there, if Scott Boas, his agent, knew of any innings limitations set by Harvey’s doctor then he shoud have stepepd up and cleared he air. He did not.

Then the stuff hit the fan when Boras finally bring heinnign s limitations.

Now Mets; GM Sandy Slderson says WTF… since when?

Harvey says his agent and doctor are advsing against pitching more than a set innings limit.

And…Harvey comes off looking like a double talking idjit.

Before I go on… I certainly am in favor of an athelte being the prime mover in his determination of his ability to perfom on the field.

However, he needs to make sure he is fully informed before going off spouting out declarations of “give me the damn bal”l when giving him the damn ball ight be the worse thing possible.

So, considering what he said earlier in the year and what is coming down… the fans, hthje MEts and his teamamtes have every right to think… hmmmm.

That being said Harvey, and Harvey alone, needs to determine if  he can pitch or not and then needs to stand by his decsion and let the chips fall where they may.

To anserw the question: Would I trade for him?

With all issues considered…  Yep, I would, but, I wouldn’t give the store away to get him.



Steve: Okay let me clear the air here on something.harvey

I am a pitcher, well was a pitcher, and, I can tell you that you want to go out there and compete every fifth day. So, I believe one hundred percent that Harvey wants to pitch, and, especially pitch in the post season.

However, you have got to listen to what your doctors say, and, if, they say that you are risking serious injury and a shortened career if you go out there and exceed the innings then you need to listen to that information.  

So, what he said makes perfect sense to me.

If, he can help my team get to the post season, I would take Harvey in a heartbeat. 

2) Jose Reyes is hearing how much the Colorado Rockiest really like… seems he’s been a good fit in the clubhouse with some enthusiasm and energy… however… that’s not exactly music to Reyes’ ear… he wants off the last place team.

What do you think the chances are that he can finagle a way out of Colorado and to some team with at least half a chance to make the playoffs next year?  

Archie1-300x277Archie: The first issue here is that the Rockies took on his big ass contract and owe him $22 Million for the next three seasons.

Reyes... as a Met
Reyes… as a Met

Reyes is NOT the same offensive threat that he was in 2011 even though he is still top 5 among shortstops in the league. His defense has not been very stellar; He committed 14 errors at short this season. While that number is not glaring, it does put him 20th out of 23 in the majors for all SS qualifying for end of season awards. He still has base stealing ability even though His range factor is only mediocre at shortstop.

So, while he is still looked upon as among the elite SS in the league he comes with a large $$$. And here is the craziest thing of all, his annual paycheck is $2 million larger than Tulo’s was. I
really can’t see where the Rockies would NOW look to move him after letting Tulo go for him.

Reyes... as a Marlin
Reyes… as a Marlin

Dan: I think that if the return for him can be high, he can get off the team. But, unless Colorado will get some top prospects or a very enticing deal for them, he’s not going anywhere.

They just traded Tulowitzki for him. The fact that they traded their top player… besides Carlos Gonzalez… is incredible. Now, they’re going to trade the top player Colorado received in that deal? Very unlikely.

I’m willing to bet they will entertain offers, but, I’m willing to bet they won’t move him.



Earl: Earl be chillin’ in Florida…

earl chill



Joe: I really doubt it…

Reyes... as a Jay
Reyes… as a Jay

He just is not that good any more and the Rocks would need to eat a bunch of salary which I don’t see them doing.

But, then again I never thought Tulo would be traded to the Jays, either…

So, who the hell knows.

Reyes... as a Rockie
Reyes… as a Rockie



Steve:  I agree that he is probably a good fit.

I’m sure that if he talks to the right people then he will be able to force Colorado to trade him. Not the way I like to see players act though, but, I would be surprised if he is there next season. He will find a way out.

I still like New York as a landing spot.

3)  When asked after Game 1 of the recent NL East showdown between the 2nd place Nats and 1st place Mets, which New York won 8-5, what the atmosphere in D.C. was like, Bryce Harper said: “They left in the seventh, so you know, that’s pretty brutal.”

He took some flak from some circles for that comment.

Harper’s comments come on the heels of similar comments made by closer Jonathan Papelbon following the team’s extra-innings win over the Atlanta Braves on Friday night. Papelbon said… “I got a little bone to pick with fans. I saw a few of ’em sitting down. We need to stand up in those situations. ‘Cuz this is playoff baseball.” 

What’s your opinion? Should they have said what they said about the Nats’ fans or just kept quiet?

Archie1-300x277Archie: I never mind players saying what they are actually thinking.

IF, the fans in D.C. are thin skinned and not appreciative of what Harper has done for them then screw them. Chipper (Jones) at times reminded the fans that the team needed their support on occasion and that was okay then as it should be now. Why are fans leaving in the 7th? Other than that frigging D.C. traffic of course. Anyone that has ever dealt with the 95 corridor traffic would understand this but c’mon.

Well, they left in the 7th, so that was pretty brutal...
Well, they left in the 7th, so that was pretty brutal…

On the other side of the coin, however, Bryce, Papelbon and crew need to do something for the fans as well and that is win it all; once at least. The Nats have been the paper team to beat for a couple years or so now and they have failed; this year especially.

Dan: They want their fans to be more involved with the team; they want their fans to pump these players up, to have confidence in their team. I have no problem with the comments they said. The only people who do, would be those who felt offended, so, their comments would be directed at them.

When you go to a game, you’re supposed to stand up and cheer for your team, pump them up. Make it feel like a home-field advantage. If, 2 top players say something about their fans, then you know it’s a problem.



Earl: Earl be chillin’ in Florida…

earl chill


Joe: The fans get their say so why don’t the players get theirs?

I have never understood why people go to games and do any and every thing but pay attention ot the game beign played. Why the hell go to a game if you ain’t gonna root for your team?

I saw a few of them sitting down..
I saw a few of them sitting down..

I got no problem with either player saying what they did.



Steve:  He probably should have kept his mouth shut, but, hey, he is an emotional player and maybe he has a point.

Get these fans into the game to motivate their team to make a run down the stretch. They are a ways out, but, this has been done before, and, a team like the Nationals with their lineup and rotation along with a slight Mets collapse… they can still take this thing. 

This kind of reminds me of the 95 World Series when the Braves’ David Justice called out the fans, and they responded, and the Braves ended up winning Game 6 and the World Series. The Nats need their fans, so for god sake support your team.
4) There have been some epic MLB pennant race collapses thought baseball history… 1951 Dodges hold a 13.5 games lead on the Giants & blow it… 1964 Phillies over the Cards by 6.5 games with 12 to play & blow it… 2007 Mets hold a 7 game lead over the Phillies with 17 to play & they blow it…

What’s your all time pennant race collapse? And yes, this is an open book test… so open them computers and do some research… 

Archie1-300x277Archie: The one that hurt me the most was 2011 Atlanta Braves.

2011 season ends with loss to the Phillies...
2011 season ends with loss to the Phillies…

They were 16 games over .500 and held 2nd place in the division behind the Phillies. They
looked to be at least a wild card if not overtake Philly for the division. But, after the all-star break they only managed .500 ball and lost their playoff spot on the last weekend of the season. That was, of course, the same year the Boston Red Sox did the EXACT same thing. Boston led the East by 2 games over the Yankees before the break and then did not even make the post season as well.

So, it was kind of a memorable year in that not one but two stellar teams both had let downs after the break and neither made it to post-season.

It took 12 innings to crown a champion... Game No. 163 ended 6-5... Twins.
It took 12 innings to crown a champion… Game No. 163 ended 6-5… Twins.

Dan:  I think it’s back in 2009 with the Detroit Tigers and Minnesota Twins.

Four games left in the season, the Tigers held a three-game lead in the division. Looking like locks to win, they went on to lose three-of-four and force a 1-game play-off with Minnesota. Detroit lost the game in extra innings, and,they even held a 10th inning lead in that game.



Earl: Earl be chillin’ in Florida…

earl chill



Joe: I gotta go with the 1964 Phillies…

That one has always amazed me.

With 12 games left in the ’64 regular season, the Phillies held a 6½-game lead in the National League. In those days, with no playoffs other than the World Series, it was a simple case of win-and-you’re-in.philly phold

The St. Louis Cardinals found itself 6½ games out after a loss to the Cincinnati Reds on Sept. 20. That defeat dropped the Cardinals into a tie with the Reds, who had been a season-high 8½ games out five days earlier and were still adjusting after an August managerial change.

Both teams knew the math was improbable but still…

Over the next week and a half,  the Phillies would go into a complete freefall, losing 10 consecutive games in seemingly every manner possible. With each loss, the impossible dream became more and more attainable for the Cardinals and Reds.

not in the cards...
not in the cards…

Without going into a drawn repaly of the final 1964 season days… the Phillies pholded and the Reds didn’tahve enough and the Cardianls eventuallycame out on top,

The Cardinals would go on to win the 1964 World Series over the NY YAnkees in seven games, with Bob Gibson, who tossed complete game wins in Games 5 and 7, earning MVP honors.



Steve: There are two of them in my book that really stand out.

1995 Take 1 game playoff game... win West.
1995 Take 1 game playoff game… win West.

Of course, the epic collapse of the 1969 Cubs, when they had a huge lead in the NL East over the Mets only to go on a downward spiral to lose the division.

The one that I remember the most was when the Seattle Mariners in 1995 took over the California Angels on the last day of the regular season. The Angels had this division all but wrapped up, having a 10 game lead at the beginning of September only to have the Ken Griffey Jr. led Mariners take over on the last day.

5) There is still time for some changes but for all intents & purposes it appears these are s the most probable teams in the playoffs… AL: Toronto, NY Yanks, KC, Houston & Texas…. NL: NY Mets, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Chi Cubs, & LA Dodgers….

Your best expert opinion, and, then your best fan-driven opinion…

Who makes it to the World Series?

Archie1-300x277Archie: Kansas City and the Mets. 0

I just have a feeling with all the comeback wins this year the Mets are destined to be there. And, Ned Yost and company in KC are driven to complete their quest they began last year. That is my picks for this year’s WS.

As a fan I really don’t care too much this season. I am put off by HOW BAD my team has become over the course of this “trade away” everything season.

Dan: In my best expert opinion, I think it’ll be Toronto vs St Louis in the World Series. Those 2 teams are the best in baseball in my opinion and I think it’ll be hard to take either team down.

Just look at Toronto’s offense, their pitching is real good and they’ll get home-field advantage. Plus, they play in a l

The Cardinals have the best record in baseball and have held that title all season. Hard to pass them up. I think St Louis wins in 6 games.

In my best fan-driven opinion, I think it’ll be Pittsburgh vs Houston with Houston winning in 7 games.

I like the Astros and I really like their young team. I think they’re doing a great job and they really took the “build inside your system” mentality to heart. I like what Pittsburgh has done the past couple of years and they’re a fun, young, exciting team to watch even though they’re in the NL Central.

I’m only 21-years-old and I haven’t seen Pittsburgh good my whole life. It’s about time they did something positive.



Earl: Earl be chillin’ in Florida…

earl chill



Joe: In my so-called expert opinion.. its beginning to look a lot like Toronto vs between either jaysPittsburgh or St. Louis. Pittsburgh is coming on strong but it’s always hard to count out St. Louis…

In my fan opinion… Yankees vs Pittsburgh… I want revenge for 1960.



Steve: I am going with the Blue Jays in the American League vs the Cardinals in the National League. The Jays are playing arguably the best baseball at this time. Just coming off a 3 of 4 series win over the Yankees to take control of the AL East.

Then you have the Cardinals who I will never bet against. They always find a way to win games, especially in the post season. The Cards are on a little slide right now, but that may be good for them as they will likely right the ship before the post season starts. 

Extra Innings… 

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