MLBRT: 1/15: Talking HOF and other baseball topics

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Time for the guys to talk about some baseball.. this week the discussion is centered on some Hall of Fame talk, some players going or staying, and, can YAsiel Puig go a whole season without being a distraction…

1) Rumors are out that Josh Hamilton won’t finish his contract… 3 years @ $68 million left… with the Angels. Either way… he’s traded or not traded… do you think Hamilton has any worth left as a future middle of the order player?Josh Hamilton 1

Archie1-300x277Archie: Baseballreference.com shows he is still owed $89 million for the next three years. Again, it was one of those “back end loaded” contracts that I personally hate. Now the Angels are on the hook for $89 million for a guy that is a shell of his former self as far as performance. I can’t see where they will be able to trade him, and, I don’t see him improving his stats to those of his days as a Ranger. He will turn 34 in May and he will probably be limited to DH duties fulltime by the end of the season.

E.J. 12Earl: I like the Josh Hamilton story, but, no, I don’t think he has a future as a middle of the order player. Guys who fall off as fast as he has scare me. It makes me wonder, if all that production was him or did he have help (if you catch my drift).

But at those numbers I wouldn’t want my team to trade for him. Even as a Mets fan, I’d want no part of Josh Hamilton and that contract. No matter how woeful our offense is.

meJoe: Hamilton played just 89 games last year due to various injuries. He sucked in the divisional playoffs against KC… batting 0-13. He also made $17 mil.

Let’s just say since he came over to the Angels from the Rangers he hasn’t exactly been the same player that he was when he played in Texas. Some of that is due to injuries; some due to coming from a hitters park in Texas to a not so much of a hitters park in LA.

He is now 33-years-old. And, because of various problems with drugs he really didn’t start playing full time until was 26 or so. Thatt works for and against him… the late start to his career means the physical wear and tear of playing is maybe not as great as it would be for other players who played full time earlier in their careers BUT who knows what the drug use did to his system, also. Maybe that drug use is why he keeps getting injured? Maybe not… maybe he is just injury prone.

So, my first answer is: I don’t think he is a middle of the order hitter at this point in his career and being on the south side of 30 is not going to help him. Until he proves by his play on the field, if, he can stay onthe field, that he can hit anywhere near his former 30+ HR days then he needs be dropped in the order to maybe 6th or 7th.

As for him not finishing his career with the Angels… In 2015 he is due $25 mil and in 2016 $32 mil… would you trade for a player owed that type of money with a slash line of about .255/.325/.415? So, the only way he gets traded is if he starts hitting the same way he did when he was in Texas…or somewhere near that. Personally, I don’t think he can do that. In my opinion, he might be able to get his numbers up to 20 HRS and maybe hit .275 with maybe 75 or 80 RBIs… and then the Angels could trade him IF they eat some of that salary.hamilton

GMs really need to do their homework on giving out long term contracts for outrageous money. A long term contract that pays the most money as the contract is expiring is not very smart, in my opinion… Hamilton is just another reason why I think that way.

Steve 01Steve: Hamilton has been having sub-par seasons ever since he joined the Angels. While, I feel that talent wise, Hamilton still has something left,  I do think that a change of scenery is much needed for him.

As a middle of the lineup player? He needs to prove that he can still put up the numbers like he did in Texas. Move him down to the seven or eighth spot and see if he can bring his numbers up. He is still a dangerous hitter despite having a few down years. He still has the ability to turn the game around with one swing of the bat.

2) Dan Haren, a California native, says he no intentions to pitch in Miami but would play for a West Coast team. The Miami Herald reports that the Marlins previously tried to find a taker for Haren but aren’t willing to part with the $10 million the Dodgers gave the Marlins to cover Haren’s remaining contract. At this point, Haren’s alternatives seem to be play with the Marlins or retire.
The question is… What the heck do really think this is about, from Haren’s perspective?Dan-Haren-Marlins

Archie1-300x277Archie: Bottom Line, he will report to ST and he will play rather than forfeit any pay or retire. He might retire after the season but I REALLY don’t think he will forfeit the $10 million pay check this season just because he does not want to play in Miami. I think the initial beef was the way the Dodgers dealt him and he got his feelings hurt in the manner the deal was done. Other than that, who’s to say what goes on the mind of some of these guys. Give me the $10 mil if he does not want it.

E.J. 12Earl: Haren may really want to play in front of his family and friends, but, let’s be honest now: Miami isn’t chopped liver. If, he was banished to Minnesota (no offense to Minnesota) I’d understand his stance but c’mon now! Haren can get his money, and, probably work out some sort of compromise with the team where he can leave them for days when he’s not needed, and, finish out his career in a beautiful locale.

meJoe: This is my how I feel… he got traded within the rules… he now can either play or not play for the Marlins. His decision.

If, he doesn’t play he forfeits the money and can’t play for anyone else until his contract runs out… the Marlins will hold his rights until then.

BUT… if the Marlins insist on keeping the money that was given to them to soften the blow of acquiring Haren’s contract then they themselves are making it real hard to get another team to trade for him. It’s within their rights to do anything they want, but, would you really want a player on your team that doesn’t want to play for you?

If, it was my team I‘d try to get rid of his ass for the best possible deal I could and that would mean throwing in that extra $10 mil to pull the deal off.MLB: Los Angeles Dodgers at San Diego Padres

Steve 01Steve: I absolutely hate players like this. You are paid to play a game that you love to do, and paid very well. Do we as every day citizens have a choice who our managers are? Sure we do, but, we may not have a job to speak of. If, no one wants him except for Miami, and, the contract he has with them, then, it’s time to hang up the cleats.

3) Carlos Delgado was a one and done in the recent HOF election… he didn’t get the requisite minimum amount of votes to be on future HOF ballots. ( A player needs at least 5% of the vote and he got 3.8%.) ESPN’s Jayson Stark says maybe Delgado would never had made the Hall, but, considering his career numbers, we owe Delgado an apology for the voters making him a one and done. What’s your take on this?carlos-delgado-1b-blue-jays

Archie1-300x277Archie: I read the article and went and checked the stats; and I agree with Stark. Wow, what an oversight by the BBWAA. But, it goes back to what I have said in the past with the whole election/voting process being broke. When you allow ONLY the media to decide and vote, and, they can only place 10 players on their ballot, and, a player like Delgado is playing in a market far from the mainstream media, this is bound to happen. I know Delgado finished with the Mets but he put up his biggest numbers while in Toronto. When the dust settles and the smoke clears on this one, there will be many future fans who look at the record books and will ask, “Who’s cornflakes did this guy piss in”, because, the numbers are truly there to receive enough votes to remain on the ballot for the full 15 years.

The amount of players that were on the ballot this year just overwhelmed the market and since the writer’s could only put ten names on their sheets, this is what happens.

E.J. 12Earl: I read Stark’s article, and, honestly after looking at Delgado’s numbers, he is owed something. I was unaware of the Hall’s voting policies but it’s rather unfair that some decent Major Leaguers get disrespected like that.

There were some decent names on Stark’s one year and done list, and, you’d think they’d be allowed the courtesy to be on ballots at least longer than a year. It’s kind of a slap in the face to have a long and distinguished career and only be considered Hall worthy for a year because he got less than 5% of the vote.

meJoe: Check these stats out:

Player A: 2415 hits; 536 HR; 1509 RBI; 1676 Runs and .298/.421/.557

Player B: 2035 hits; 473 HR; 1512 RBI; 1241 Runs and .80/.383/.546

Player C: 2774 hits; 438 HRs; 1509 RBI;1373 Runs and .79/.323/.482

Player D: 2315 hits; 512 HR; 1453 RBI; 1509 Runs and .271/.376/.509

Player E: 2452 hits; 382 HR; 1451 RBI; 1249 Runs and .298/.352/.502

Who belongs in the Hall and who doesn’t? Players A, C, D, E are Mickey Mantle, Andre Dawson, Eddie Matthews and Jim Rice… all are in the Hall. So, looking at those guys and their numbers, the argument could be made that, yeah, Delgado should have gotten more votes than he did.carlos delgado

Is it a slap in the face? I don’t think so. It’s just the way that the BBWAA saw things, and, it was that not enough voters saw Delagado as a Hall electee, so they simply didn’t vote for him. Stuff happens.

Steve 01Steve: An apology? No, I wouldnt go that far. I do think Delgado deserved a better showing in the Hall of Fame balloting, at least being eligible for next year.

I have to say that he was not on my ballot, as I feel that if you can’t close your eyes and say the name of a player and make a definititive “Yes, he is a Hall of Famer” without looking at the numbers, then, he probably should not be in the Hall of Fame.

4) Another Hall question… Do you think players, who were either Designated Hitters, or primarily Designated Hitters, for their career, belong in the Hall?

Archie1-300x277Archie: AS LONG AS THERE is a DH, then, yes. It is just like Closers. When they are asked to specialize in one specific area of the game and they do that one thing better that anyone else in history then absolutely they should earn a place in the HOF.

I do not personally like the DH rule. I think it has run its course and no longer requires a separate “designation” for a player position in MLB. Keep the rule just do away with the title given to an individual. I know it is used at other levels of baseball as well and that’s fine, but, in MLB it is not really a separate thing like it one time was. There are 15 teams in the AL and only 4, I say again, F.O.U.R. that had a DH that qualified for end of year batting awards. And there were only 6 TOTAL players listed as DH in all of MLB last year. So, I ask you, is the DH “designation” still valid?

Designated Hitters belong in the Hall?
Designated Hitters belong in the Hall?

E.J. 12Earl: Yeah, I’ll say so. If, you put up numbers, numbers that makes them in league with players that are already in the Hall, then, yeah, they should get in. So, they didn’t play a position in the field? So what?

meJoe: A qualified yes,  they do belong. Since the Hall seems to be based on primarily offensive numbers, they proably deserve to get in. However, if I had a vote I would really need to see some hellifed numbers before I could justify voting for them over guys who played full time and had better than average defense.

Steve 01Steve: To be in the Hall of Fame as a Designtated Hitter, you would have had to have something special in baseball.

David Ortiz is that kind of player, where I can say without a shadow of a doubt that he is a Hall of Fame player, not only for his on the field contributions, but, for his off the field contributions as well. He has led his team to championships on multiple occasions. While, Ortiz is a special player, I don’t see any other DH, currently out there, that, I would put on my HOF ballot. This includes Edgar Martinez, who is, in my opinion, in the Hall of very good.

Who is the greatest DH?
Player PA as DH AVG/OBP/SLG OPS as DH OPS/Avg. DH OPS
Edgar Martinez 6,218 .314/.428/.532 .959 1.21
David Ortiz 6,523 .288/.384/.557 .941 1.16
Frank Thomas 5,698 .275/.394/.505 .899 1.12
Hal McRae 5,917 .294/.357/.463 .820 1.10
Harold Baines 6,618 .291/.370/.467 .837 1.07
Don Baylor 5,391 .259/.344/.449 .792 1.06

(Editors note: Frank Thomas is already enshrined in the Hall.)

5) Yasiel Puig says he will not be a distraction this coming season. Think he can keep that vow?Yasiel Puig

Archie1-300x277Archie: HELL to the NO. Puig has mental issues that do not allow him to not be distracted. His head is not right when it comes to all the glimmer and glitz of MLB and the stardom that it carries. He has the tools for the game, except the mental capacity to cope with it all. He still plays as if his individual game is greater than the team game.

E.J. 12Earl: Not a chance in hell. Is that a good enough answer for you? Distraction follows the guy, either because he caused it, or he invites it. I can’t possibly believe that a whole major league season can go by and Yasiel won’t be an issue. I’ll believe it when I see it but I won’t bet in favor of Puig not being a distraction.

meJoe: I’ll believe it when I see it… so…

The answer is “Not a chance in hell.”  Puig

Steve 01Steve: I have been critical of Puig in the past for his antics on and off the field. With that said, he has two years under his belt now, and may have been able to mature a bit as a player. So I will say, Yes I think he can keep that vow. Puig can be a great player, maybe even a superstar, and the more discipline that he has, the better he is going to be. He needs the right manager to keep him going on the right direction.

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