So, in case most of you don’t know….David and myself “met” on a Sports Illustrated affiliated social media sports website way back in 2007. It was pretty cool site for sports addicts sickos like David and myself but (like all good things) it has eventually died off as it has been sold off and hasn’t been properly maintained over the years.
Anyhow, Throwdowns were a topic that could be debated back and forth between two willing participants. It could be something as simple as who will win a certain Division or Conference or something ludicrous like the Jacksonville Jaguars will win the Super Bowl. It’s up to the debaters to prove their point. And people vote on which debate they liked better (didn’t always work out that way, sometimes it turned into just a poll).
Well, David and myself competed in over 4,000 of those COMBINED! Yeah, we were pretty passionate about our opinions and. Recently, we argued a topic and decided to re-post it here for the fine viewers at 7poundbag.com to read.
Where is the best landing spot for Big Ben?
Arizona vs Minny!
David: When we got to talking about Big Ben wanting to leave the Steel City, we got to talking about where he should be headed.
1. We are past the trade deadline, so he’s not getting traded, so we are looking at this offseason. Let start with the boring parts first.
Big Ben is getting PAAAAAAID. Arizona is looking at about 125M next year, not counting any adjustments and cutting people. Thats a MASSIVE payroll to start trimming, and adding Big Ben is really going to be a boost for that.
Minny on the other hand, is sitting on 105M for next year- and thanks to Kevin Williams redoing his contract, he comes off the books as restricted, but they have another player they can cut and add in almost enough to pay for Big Ben.
Jared Allen. He comes off the books this year.Big Ben is due $12.1 million in 2014 and $11.6 million in 2015.
2. Just to bore the rest of you.
Offensive Line. According to Football outsiders, Minny and Zona’s line both are middle of the pack, but Minny is better ranked 15th vs Zona’s 16th. Minny has given up 20 sacks, Zona 23, (as of Nov 5th)
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DJ: He came out and denied it after the game, but let’s play the what if game.
Arizona makes the most sense for Ben. Bruce Arians was his offensive coordinator from 2004-2006 in Pittsburgh. Arians is familiar with Big Ben and knows what his strengths are and how to use him best.
Larry Fitzgerald needs a QB that can get him the ball consistently. In a lot of games this year, Palmer hasn’t been able to find Fitzgerald until the 2nd half.
NFL contracts aren’t guaranteed. The Cardinals would do everything necessary to bring in Big Ben. They would look at their cap situation and do what they needed to when they traded for Palmer. Make the needed cuts. Releasing Palmer would pretty much free up the space needed to trade for Big Ben.
Arizona has a good defense. Before their game against the Texans, they were allowing just 21.8ppg, tied for 11th. Meanwhile, Minnesota is allowing 31ppg, 30th.
Having a good defense means winning games isn’t all on Ben’s shoulders to go out there and outscore the opponent.
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David:Well, first of we are past the trade deadline, so of course he is going to deny everything.
Pitts not going to cut him, so he’s gonna have to wait until next year to go anywhere.
Palmer is going to make 8M next year- so no, he’s not the same as Big Bens 12M, and you are STILL almost 20 Million behind Minny is getting under the salary cap.
So Arizona needs a QB? Minny doesn’t? The Vikings are running ADP into 11 man fronts on 3rd and 10 for crying out loud! The only way CP gets open is to return punts.
Yes Minnesota’s defense stinks, but lets look at the other QBs in the NFC North.
Rodgers – Debatable best QB in the NFL
Stafford- #1 Pick, best WR in Football.
Cutler – Traded for 2 number 1 picks at one time. Threw for over 3K EVERY YEAR in his career other than 2011 when he only played 10 games and his Rookie Year.
and Minny. A team so desperate they got Josh Freeman
Big Ben, for all his faults, has 2 rings, is excellent in Cold Weather, and may know a thing or two about knowing when to change the play to the RB.
And Lake Minnetonka NEEDS BIG BEN
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DJ: I don’t think Minnesota will trade for Big Ben. I think they are a prime example of a team that will draft a QB and play him immediately. Handing off to Peterson and leaning heavily on the running game while he learns the ropes.
Arizona is in a position to try and win now. Kind of like when they acquired Kurt Warner. They are 5-4, even with the mistakes that Carson Palmer has made. Palmer is completing just 61.4% of his passes for 239ypg, 6.8ypa, 12 TD’s to 15 INT’s with a 74.5 Passer Rating.
If they had a better QB, they could easily be 7-2 and one of the better teams in the NFC. This worked out for Warner, who was also pretty good in cold weather also.
If Minnesota released Jared Allen, they lose one of their better players off an already bad defense. I just don’t see how Big Ben to Minnesota makes more sense then him going to Arizona.
Minnesota is thinking about trading AP and blowing it all up and starting over. Trade for a QB who makes 12 million?
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David: Allen is a free agent, they won’t release him, his contract ends
Next, this is only going to be the SECOND losing season of the ADP era- Minny has won a ton of games with a shoddy QB and 2 shaty coaches
Minny can hire Bruce as a HC, and run that Pitt Offense. We are talking next season. ADP don’t care about what offense they run as long as he sees less than 10 people coming at him on everydown.
On the flip side, not counting this year, the Cards have has TWO winning seasons in the past 7 years- that is counting a SB appearance, featuring the very QB we are talking about.
Ponder has 13 Picks and 13 TDs, 53% Comp 70 rating, 6.4 ypa for 168 yards per game
Across the board, in EVERY STAT Ponder is worse than Palmer
Who is Zona’s Running Back again? I forget- Beanie Wells? How much better would Palmer be with a running game?
Arizona has to cut 20M more than Minny, has a worse O-Line, worse recent history than Minny, who is having a horrid yeat- primarily due to a QB that sucks more than the guy that got ran out of Oakland.
ADP might only have 3-4 years left, and Bens 31 already
Not gonna happen, but between these two- Minny
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DJ: Beanie Wells?
He was released on March 22, 2013. He wasn’t even with the team in preseason. Arizona has a nice young rookie RB by the name of Andre Ellington. He’s averaging 7.2 yards per carry and is a nice receiver out of the backfield as well.
They are 24th in running the ball, but they have won their last 2 games and are averaging 149.5ypg in those 2 wins. Palmer had a running game in 2011 with the Raiders and couldn’t do squat. They were 7th in the League with 131.9 yards per game. What happened? They were 4-2 when they traded for him and went 4-6 after acquiring him. He has never recovered his Pro Bowl form after being injured in 2008.
Big Ben hasn’t had an elite running game for a few seasons but has developed from a game manager type into a QB that can win games with his arm.
Arizona has a better offensive line. Ponder is a more mobile QB than Palmer, that’s why he hasn’t been sacked as much.
I don’t see Minnesota trading for a QB like Big Ben, I see them drafting a QB in May and possibly trading Adrian Peterson in the offseason.
So….Arians is leaving Arizona after 1 season to go to Minnesota? What the Hell have you been smoking?
There you have it. 2 totally different opinions, argued by two average Joe’s who love the sport. What’s the opinion of the peanut gallery?
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